Senator Mohammed Muktar Aruwa served two-terms as Senator representing Kaduna Central Senatorial District in the Senate between 1999 and 2003. After he left the Senate, he took a shot at the governorship race on the platform of All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP), Kaduna State, in 2007. He again gave another trial in 2011 elections, which was futile. In this interview with a group of journalists at his Kaduna Allied Ranch Farms, Aruwa spoke on various issues ranging from President Goodluck Jonathan’s rumoured ambition to contest the 2015 election and the North’s insistence on power returning to the region. Correspondent, John Adi, was there. Excerpts:
How do you assess the leadership of Bamanga Tukur in retrospect?
Senator Mohammed Muktar Aruwa
Well, unfortunately the decisions of the party hierarchy to pick Bamanga as Chairman of the party, rightly or wrongly, was made, and throughout the party was full of turmoil. From the time he took over, I don’t think there was a week of peace. So, there is no room to assess his administration. He was not able to administer other than troubleshooting, trying to resolve problems. So, it is difficult, to be fair, for anybody to say he was good or bad. For this reason, I don’t think I can pass any comment on Bamanga Tukur’s administration of PDP.
Now that Bamanga Tukur has become a former chairman of PDP, having resigned his position due to pressure, and PDP, particularly in the North, has lost four governors to the opposition APC, what do you think would be the electoral fortunes of the party in the coming elections?
He has come and he’s gone. Now if we are talking about governors defecting, members of the House of Representatives – they did not do this for neither Tukur nor PDP; they were inviting chaos into the nation and it would affect everyone of us, because it is only in a country where there is no rule of law that you can take a mandate from party ‘A’ to party ‘B’ without regard to the electorate and you expect democracy to succeed. So, talking about defection within a party, a ruling party, and expecting it to be a minority through the whims and caprices of its own members – not the electorate – I don’t think anyone of you should even give credence or support, unless you all resolve that the military should come back. For example, if PDP today decided to recall each of those members, governors, senators or House of Representatives, it requires only 5,000 signatories. Do you think in all those states that the governors said they have left, PDP will fail to get 5,000 signatories from its own members within that state? The answer is no, PDP can always get that signatories. But what is the consequential effect of recall, if PDP elect to do that? If you look at what is happening now, it’s like people who have cooked in a pot, fed fat in the pot, now becoming hell bent on breaking that pot so that nobody can cook in that pot again – it’s more or less in that direction. There is nothing good about defection. If you want to defect, resign your elected office. But in this case, they are not resigning, and do you expect PDP to just sit and fold its arm? So, this is a question for each and every one of you. It affects all of us. It’s an invitation to chaos. So, I don’t know what reaction PDP will take in this direction, but certainly don’t expect it to sit down and not apply the rules governing such defections. And if that happens, it is politicians that have failed the country. So, it is nothing to write home about.
But we’ve seen governors from other parties defecting to PDP and the world did not collapse. In any case, what does the PDP constitution say concerning defection?
If a precedent was established, it is not an excuse to totally abandon the rule and law. I’m not talking about the PDP constitution; I’m talking about the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria and the Electoral Act, these are very clear. Let’s talk about Yuguda. He took a ticket from ANPP to PDP. I know how much we fought on that issue, but again, like I said, precedent is not greater than the law. So, if ANPP decided not to recall Yuguda that does not mean. Try this in the South-West. Any governor from the APC should try and go to another party, I don’t think Tinubu will allow that as it is clear in the Electoral Act and Constitution. First, you must resign. Even INEC, within the law establishing it, supported by the Electoral Act, can declare all those seats vacant. Is that good for the nation? Look at the share number! So, it is a very delicate balance. I’m surprised at the former speaker, Masari. Only recently, he announced that any state where the governor decamps, he automatically becomes the leader of the party in that state. Masari is a lawmaker and should know what the law provides. If we cannot build on what the political establishment has built upon, we should not be distorting, because it is the masses that will suffer. Today, if people like me were still in the Armed Force, we would have sent the politicians home long time, because they have failed the nation. No issues that the political party or body cannot resolve, unless they want total destruction. Let me be clear, PDP will not sit and just look at this thing. It will not just sit and look at it. So, let’s be concerned and worried about what will be the reaction, in the coming weeks and months. We should all be very concerned because there are no two ways about this.
Let’s look at the issue of internal party democracy in the PDP vis-à-vis the leadership imposition by the same party, don’t you think this could be a factor that will definitely inspire defection in the party?
Internal democracy in all the political parties in Nigeria is lacking. Talk about internal democracy if there is any. Even in APC, Masari wouldn’t have said what he said a few days ago. Does that give room for internal democracy? Yes, interest groups abound in all political parties, but no matter the problems, at the end of the day, you should sit as a family to resolve it. But where some insist that there will be no resolution, where do you go from there? This is the situation PDP finds itself. Yes, there are lapses on the part of the management of PDP, no question about it, but two wrongs cannot make a right. The situation democracy finds itself in Nigeria, do you think it is proper and right for democracy? You answer that. Gentlemen, here is a country that is yearning for democracy; the gladiators are not willing to resolve issues, who suffers? Democracy. Some of the media have not been fair, there is a lopsided reportage on about all issues. Leaders are bound to make mistakes. Followers are bound to read between the lines and see which is genuine, or deliberate. Nobody has a monopoly of knowledge ,PDP inclusive, but that is not to say that in a 30-member State Assembly, 27 will decide to change camp leaving 3 on the platform that brought all of them into the house. Is there any sense in that, democratically? Whoever is the leader ought to have stopped that, because they are challenging democracy. Democracy doesn’t talk. We should speak and talk on behalf of democracy, but when we see wrong, we beat the drum and dance to it; the consequences will spare no one of us. It is wrong for any leader to think that he wants people to decamp to his side; he would remove 27 out of 30 at a go and expect not to be hacking on the fabric of democracy, that’s my point, and I don’t think it’s right. The same legislators went to court – PDP did not go to court – for fear of recall, they went to court. And what was the court’s verdict? It said there is no faction in PDP. INEC said there is no faction in PDP and you said they are legislators. So, what good are they when they don’t respect the law? They went to court and this is the verdict. I was not in the court and I read the verdict. So, it’s a matter of lawlessness, period.
Many Northern elders and some members of the PDP from the North claimed to be disappointed at the PDP government. What is your opinion on this?
I don’t believe that the North should fight or go out of its way because it wants to govern this country. The seat of power, I have said it and with no regret and I will say it again, the home of power in Nigeria remains in the North, no question about it. Democracy is about number and election is about number. Whoever that is ruling today, even Jonathan, I don’t think he got to where he is without at least 25% minimum of votes from the North. So, make no mistake about it, no Southerner can be president without northerners and no northerner without southerners. So, for any northerner to go over head fighting that at such and such point power should come here, I’m not with that thought. We have a country that belongs to all of us. We have a non-Northerner ruling today, it will turn round and round. So, it should be allowed the natural movement. But to force your way just because you are a majority, democracy still request that you protect the interest of the minority. So, now a Southerner is ruling eventually it will come to the North and at that time, you can now block it going out, but don’t say you will force your way and that it must be now, and for that reason hell must be let loose. If we the Northerners believe that that is the way to run the government or democracy, I don’t see it that way. But that is not the fight we should embark on. We should work towards reuniting the nation, working together; the wheel has turned the other way, but it’s coming back and it will come back in our life time or in our children’s life time. That’s what democracy is all about, it’s not about the north because it has number. And this is why I’m surprised at that the Buharis and the Atikus, all of those who converge, they are all doing it for themselves not for our younger ones, not for the future. If it was for the future, I don’t think it will be this intense, I don’t think so.
What will be your take on the position of Northerners, based on what they said concerning the so-called gentleman agreement in the PDP for a rotational presidency vis-à-vis Jonathan’s reelection bid?
Firstly, democratically, it was wrong for them to go into that agreement which doesn’t exist. If they were guided by the constitution they needn’t even have talked about that so-called agreement which, as far as I’m concerned, is verbal; you’re not a witness to it, the voterswere not witnesses to it. All those Northerners and elders, I don’t care if they escort the earth to the world, none of them can present a copy of that agreement, they only talk about a non-existent agreement. In any case, it is not democratic. The constitution provides for two terms, the Electoral Act provides for two terms. So, the voters are the only ones that can deny or give you one term or even recall you, if the need be. So, who gave those elders you are referring to the mandate to negotiate this non-existing agreement? If it exists – I don’t know – have you seen it? You are members of the press, has anybody shown you that agreement? Let me draw your attention to the fact that, sometimes you members of the press are the problems of our polity. Jonathan inherited 2 years from Umar Yar’adua of blessed memory. Jonathan agitated for 6 year one term, the time he is referring to is the 2 years he finished for Yar’adua and the 4 years he’s now on. But we said no. Can any one of you recall the time he was agitating for six year single term? Where was our head at that time? Are our heads over our shoulders or were they somewhere else? But now we say no to six year single term, and then it is constitutional he has the right to re-contest. There is nowhere in the constitution that ban him from contesting, and he saw it fit that he wants to try it again. It is the voters that will decide, not north deciding for you. They arrogate to themselves all sorts of names – elders, stakeholders, all kinds of names which is not known by the constitution of either the party or the federation. So, if we had agreed to a six year single term, today Jonathan would not be talking about contesting, but we said no, and the constitution says you cannot be elected twice in the same office. The drafters of the constitution are very clever, they didn’t say you cannot be sworn-in, if it is swearing-in, he would not have reason to contest. They say you cannot be elected twice in the same office. So, Jonathan was elected once, unless he on his own decided to say; ‘I am not contesting’, no power, no group of persons or elders can stop him. This is the position of the law, constitution and the electorate. To we Northerners, all I’m begging is that we become united. We need to work on that unity to hold ourselves as a bloc and speak the truth, honestly, fairly and sincerely at all given times.
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